tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post3573341633695726651..comments2024-03-16T07:13:50.487-07:00Comments on Lost Live Dead: December 10-12, 1972, Winterland: Grateful Dead/High Country (10)/Sons Of Champlin (11)/Rowan Brothers (12) (opening acts)Corry342http://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-30166481976542190982016-10-21T12:33:44.731-07:002016-10-21T12:33:44.731-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-50930989579031299422016-04-03T15:14:52.587-07:002016-04-03T15:14:52.587-07:00Actually, if the Dead had played an Alan Freed Mem...Actually, if the Dead had played an Alan Freed Memorial Boogie, the setlist would have been pretty cool. Probably would have needed Pigpen, thoughCorry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-50915474700448891282016-04-03T15:05:21.131-07:002016-04-03T15:05:21.131-07:00Yes, true.
Also, thanks for the correction- the 6...Yes, true.<br /><br />Also, thanks for the correction- the 6-17-75 show was in fact the advertised as the Bob Fried Memorial Boogies, not Alan Fried. <br /><br />DC Readehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966699799030112905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-17724317265339685732016-04-03T09:56:05.154-07:002016-04-03T09:56:05.154-07:00Thanks for pointing out that there were opening ac...Thanks for pointing out that there were opening acts at the Bob Fried Memorial Boogie on June 17, 1975. Point taken.<br /><br />However, the June 17 show was not at all a typical Grateful Dead event. The band was on hiatus, and the show was advertised as "Jerry Garcia And Friends." There was no guarantee that the headliner wouldn't be Garcia and Saunders.<br /><br />Granted, "Jerry Garcia And Friends" had been billed at SNACK, and the Dead had played. However, they did one 40-minute instrumental with two extra keyboard players, and then "Johnny B. Goode," so it was hardly a regular Dead show.<br /><br />The implication was that the Dead would probably play, but that it might not at all be a "typical" show a la 74. My sister and I thought this through for a week and decided to go, but by that time the show was sold out. Of course, as we know, the Dead played almost a full show, but that was not at all a certainty beforehand.<br /><br />That being said, I should have written as "other than NYE, no opening act every appeared again at a show when the Grateful Dead were the advertised headliner."Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-28178946557362061652016-04-02T23:50:47.019-07:002016-04-02T23:50:47.019-07:00"Other than New Years Eve, no opening act eve..."Other than New Years Eve, no opening act ever appeared again with the Grateful Dead at Winterland."<br /><br />Not exactly. The Alan Fried Memorial show at Winterland- billed as Jerry Garcia and Friends- turned out to be the complete Grateful Dead, with opening acts Kingfish, Keith & Donna, and the Mirrors. I was in for Kingfish, didn't see the earlier acts. <br /><br />There are few details and pesonal reminiscences about the show in the comments at archive.org. Unfortunately, the cogent observations have to be excavated from between the reams of irrelevant, pointless dreck in the thread. DC Readehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966699799030112905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-24575424106158131522015-09-06T10:10:52.174-07:002015-09-06T10:10:52.174-07:00I have contact with a woman who recorded the Armad...I have contact with a woman who recorded the Armadillo 11/23/72 show on a reel to reel. It's never been transferred. She says Jerry also sat in with the opener, The Rowan Brothers. <br />Jerry's Brokendown Palaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06451361448230329754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-49094138954407911312010-11-02T15:13:02.379-07:002010-11-02T15:13:02.379-07:00I have a lot to say, too!
The first OAITW show wi...I have a lot to say, too!<br /><br />The first OAITW show with Vassar was June 5, 1973 in Boston.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-89234900141958374512010-11-02T10:03:15.875-07:002010-11-02T10:03:15.875-07:00Crypt, the Muleskinner connection is a very intere...Crypt, the Muleskinner connection is a very interesting subject that I have a lot to say about, but I'm going to save it for another post, hopefully coming up soon.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-89854711044759759922010-11-02T07:04:07.745-07:002010-11-02T07:04:07.745-07:00The genesis of Old and In the Way seems to have be...The genesis of Old and In the Way seems to have been Muleskinner, which was basically a session band that cut a single album for Warner Brothers in either late 1972 or very early 1973. Muleskinner comprised Peter Rowan, Grisman, John Kahn, Richard Greene, and banjo master Ben Keith, with both drummer John Guerin and bassist John Kahn contributing to the sessions. The group's sole studio album was co-produced by Greene and famed produducer Joe Boyd, who is best known for discovering and producing acts like Fairport Convention, the Incredible String Band, and Pink Floyd during his years in London. This group might well have been a more stable configuration had White not been killed in a tragic accident, being struck by a car while loading his gear after a gig. <br /><br />Obviously Grisman and Kahn already had connections with Garcia, and I think Rowan was already living in Marin by this time, so it was not that hard to see how they were able to coax him to break out his five string after several years to form Old and In the Way. Although OIITW did some early gigs without a fiddler, Greene was on board for a few months until Vassar Clements joined sometime between April and June 1973 (JGMF can probably clarify).<br /><br />The Muleskinner repertoire included a number of songs later played by OIITW, including "Blue Mule" "Land of the Navajo" and "Goin' to the Races." In addition to their studio album, Sierra Records released a CD in 1991 of their television performance at KCET in Hollywood on 2/13/73, just a few weeks before the initial OIITW gig.<br /><br />Muleskinner was a formidable group with considerable potential. However, Clarence White chose to tour with his brother Roland as "The White Brothers" until his death in June 1973. Keith, a life long east coaster, apparently drifted away, which opened the door for Garcia, rusty chops and all, to slide into OIITW.cryptdevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944617292210813801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-1102846693740907842010-11-01T16:46:48.670-07:002010-11-01T16:46:48.670-07:00I found some of the details about the Grisman/Rowa...I found some of the details about the Grisman/Rowan/Garcia connection. In 1970, Grisman aspired to be a producer, and his partner was former AAPA agent Richard Loren. Grisman and Loren persuaded the Rowan Brothers to move to Marin, and they all lived in Stinson Beach down the hill from Garcia. <br /><br />So I was wrong about thinking Garcia hooked up Grisman with CBS--it was Richard Loren who sold the Rowans and Grisman as a package, although Garcia's endorsement had to help. Even more interesting, Grisman was the point of intersection between Garcia and Richard Loren, who managed Garcia's "non-Dead" activities.<br /><br />This goes a long way to explaining the polite distance with which the other Dead members kept between themselves and Grisman. Grisman wasn't just a Jerry-quality musician (unlike, say, Tom Fogerty), but an ambitious producer who had introduced Garcia's manager to him. This meant that Grisman was an inherent threat to the other Dead members, since Garcia could always choose to spend more time with Grisman, hence lowering the Dead's earnings. I don't think anyone really felt that Garcia would leave the Dead, but dropping a tour or two from their annual schedule would have meant a significant reduction in income. I think John Kahn and Grisman were both viewed as threats to the Dead, albeit in somewhat different ways--Kahn was Garcia's comfort zone, and Grisman challenged him, but that summed up both sides of Jerry's personality.<br /><br />However, since Grisman and the Rowans were quite literally down the hill from Garcia, that was how the casual jamming began, and it does seem to have been the implicit start to Old And In The Way.<br /><br />Details are on p.404-5 of Dennis McNally's book, and an interview with Chris and Lorin Rowan here<br />http://www.philzone.com/interviews/rowan_bros/Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-73865011148212609282010-10-31T14:59:39.429-07:002010-10-31T14:59:39.429-07:00I think Grisman is kind of embarrassed by the whol...I think Grisman is kind of embarrassed by the whole Rowan Brothers thing. Not the music--its not a bad 70s rock album, though nothing special. But there was maximum hype from CBS, and I don't think the project worked out at all the way he intended. Its even possible that he changed his name on the album as a kind of Alan Smithee thing (the name scriptwriters use for film credits when they reject the script that has been changed without their approval).<br /><br />Just as Garcia needed a break from the ever-expanding Grateful Dead, Grisman may have needed a respite from frustrations at trying to work within the confines of a giant corporation. Peter Rowan's band (Sea Train) was going down the tubes, too, so that may account for the relaxed feel of the original OAITW. Grisman has always aspired to a producer role--look at him now, after all--and he may not want to talk about The Rowan Brothers because he doesn't want to criticize people who he may still be friendly with, possibly including Jerry.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-63839217061376151062010-10-31T14:51:26.943-07:002010-10-31T14:51:26.943-07:00BTW, I have the Piedmont Park thing as July 7, not...BTW, I have the Piedmont Park thing as July 7, not July 6, 1969.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-32073779279080922032010-10-31T14:43:29.309-07:002010-10-31T14:43:29.309-07:00So Jerry plays steel during that 11/23/72 Armadill...So Jerry plays steel during that 11/23/72 Armadillo World thing? Interesting. If so, yes, that'd be the last public steel performance he'd do until '87. I am just checking out the 3/18/73 Felt Forum NRPS show, and Buddy Cage is indeed there. For some reason I had recalled that he couldn't make it and JG was subbing, but that's not the case.<br /><br />By the way, on that Nov. 3 1972 Winterland show, JG sat in with both the Rowans and the NRPS.<br /><br />Your thoughts about the Rowans - Garcia - Grisman connection are interesting. Of course, Grisman and Peter Rowan knew each other from Earth Opera, among other things.<br /><br />I did try to ask Grisman about the Diadem pseudonym, but didn't get anything on it.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-72907554066724629112010-10-31T13:32:55.631-07:002010-10-31T13:32:55.631-07:00The Archive comments are relevant, because in the ...The Archive comments are relevant, because in the early 70s few people had access to tapes. Most people learned to like the Grateful Dead from records. The idea that every Dark Star was different wasn't really clear. Obviously people who'd been to more shows had a better idea, but most people liked the albums, went to a show or two and dug the vibe. Even by the late 70s, fully half of the concertgoers seemed completely unaware that Garcia and Weir alternated songs.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-32031838967434066852010-10-31T13:27:33.200-07:002010-10-31T13:27:33.200-07:00A parenthetical aside -
It's intriguing that...A parenthetical aside - <br /><br />It's intriguing that, as a young concertgoer, your favorite song of the show was Johnny B Goode. On tape, it wouldn't be regarded as one of the highlights of the evening; but people *at* the shows would have different reactions than people listening to the tapes years later. <br /><br />There was a discussion of '70s showgoers on the Archive forum a while back - one person mentioned that at the 6-17-75 show, his favorites were Beat It On Down the Line and Me & My Uncle. (!) <br />Another said, "When you are a youngster, the rockers are the ones that stick with you, they get your attention... The first time I saw them (10/14/76) it was the Around that got me, not the long Dancin>Wharf Rat (my buddy fell asleep!) The next concert (2/26/77), I was impressed with the US Blues and the short Weir tunes, not the Playing>Wheel>Playing, or the Help>Slip>Frank... Didn't even know I had heard a 'Help>Slip' till I got the tape!"<br /><br />And one says, "By 74, there were lots of times during jams the audience was quiet, and while looking around, it wasn't a scene of quiet reverence as I can attest. It was sheer and utter boredom. Only when it was within 3 songs of the close, and esp. energetic, would everyone be engaged...most of the 72 jams, esp. long Stars, I tend to think would be in this "yawn" category. At the time, I absolutely deplored anything more than a five min song...I really do believe few at the time cared much about long jams." <br />(Of course, many folks then disagreed with him!)Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-41941887862691767122010-10-31T10:07:12.117-07:002010-10-31T10:07:12.117-07:00the Dead and the Allmans
Jam bands entertain me ...<i>the Dead and the Allmans </i><br /><br />Jam bands entertain me for a few minutes (more than b-grass does), and granted these be two of the best, at least when clicking, or sober enough to play. :]. I've read Jerry was sort of blown away by Dickey Betts' playing--with some reason. Betts was like the Paganinni of the country-rock (Duane, too--but he was more strictly blues). In some of those old AB jams--Jessica, Memory of E. Reed, etc--Betts created a uniquely beautiful, intense sort of country fusion sound. Gregg's not such a poor Ham.B3- player either--but there's alas some bad joss around , as with most of Rock Inc.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-76014833509960197972010-10-31T09:55:21.342-07:002010-10-31T09:55:21.342-07:00JGMF, thanks for that, I updated it. From my point...JGMF, thanks for that, I updated it. From my point of view, personally, its a shame that Garcia didn't see fit to repeat his appearance.<br /><br />Was Jerry's last appearance on pedal steel ('til 87) the Thanksgiving show at Armadillo World Headquarters, with Doug Sahm and Leon Russell?<br /><br />I'm also wondering about the Rowan Brothers being instrumental in the formation of Old And In The Way. Garcia clearly got the Rowans signed to CBS, because Clive Davis always liked Jerry. I have to think that Garcia must have helped get Grisman the producer's gig, too, since why would CBS assign the "next Beatles" and their (supposed) $350,000 to an unknown mandolin player? <br /><br />Whenever there are articles or stories about OAITW, no one ever asks Grisman about producing The Rowan Brothers, because everyone forgets it. A Google Search won't turn it up, because he used the name David Diadem--no one ever asks him about that either. <br /><br />Peter Rowan and Garcia would have met through Grisman anyway, of course, but I think the Rowan Brothers project was essential in keeping Grisman in Garcia's neighborhood (literally), making it easy for the Garcia/Rowan/Grisman collaboration to happen naturally. <br /><br />It also seems that if I am right about the "last" pedal steel appearance being November 72, it seems like the banjo playing picks up right around that time. That too was probably not a coincidence. Garcia had played a little banjo from 67-72, but it doesn't seem to have been sustained. Once Grisman and Peter Rowan are in his town, Garcia finds it convenient to play bluegrass, and I think the Rowan Brothers project played a large if somewhat coincidental role in that. It sounds like a worthy subject to quiz Grisman about, since no one has asked him in decades, if ever.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-80365319928132337592010-10-30T23:31:02.267-07:002010-10-30T23:31:02.267-07:00"However, Garcia did not perform live with th..."However, Garcia did not perform live with them again."<br /><br />That's not right. Winterland, November 3, 1972, Garcia sat in with the Rowans, as <a href="http://www.thejerrysite.com/shows/show/2240" rel="nofollow">documented at the Jerry Site</a>.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-36331985831556361332010-10-30T19:45:06.074-07:002010-10-30T19:45:06.074-07:00I'm sure you are right about the Dead and the ...I'm sure you are right about the Dead and the Allmans playing Texas and elsewhere, but I haven't been able to find a schedule of canceled Allmans shows from Nov 3 to Dec 9. It really is an interesting perspective on a road that couldn't be taken.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-917375591815308652010-10-30T19:42:53.993-07:002010-10-30T19:42:53.993-07:00I did like the Dead better than the Rowan Brothers...I did like the Dead better than the Rowan Brothers, but that's not a definitive statement. It was all pretty overwhelming. My favorite song that night was "Johnny B. Goode."Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-54299744669717305342010-10-30T19:08:12.863-07:002010-10-30T19:08:12.863-07:00A slight addition - weren't the Allmans suppos...A slight addition - weren't the Allmans supposed to be on tour with the Dead in Texas, Nov '72? The joint Winterland shows may have been planned at the same time. If not for that accident, we could have had MULTIPLE Dead/Allmans superjams at the end of '72.<br /><br />From an October '73 article by Cameron Crowe: <br />"The original idea for these supershows started over a year ago when a full length, cross-country tour with the Allman Brothers was booked into some of America's largest stadiums. The two bands have been long time friends, going back to the days the members of the groups first met each other backstage at the Fillmore East. Both bands were set to hop on planes to begin the tour last fall when Allman bassist Berry Oakley was killed in a motorcycle accident just a few days before their opening show in Houston, Texas. The joint tour was cancelled until this past summer, when the Allmans and the Dead made an appearance at the RFK Stadium in Washington." <br />http://www.cameroncrowe.com/journalism/articles/crowe_jrl_dead2.html <br /><br />Anyway, it's interesting that by '72, the Dead could choose the opening acts they liked! (In fact, it's interesting they had opening acts at all.)<br />I'm a little surprised you make no personal comment on your first Dead show. Presumably they were better than the Rowan Brothers?Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.com