tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post6030863532470241365..comments2024-03-16T07:13:50.487-07:00Comments on Lost Live Dead: February 1973, unnamed bar, Stinson Beach, CA: Old And In The WayCorry342http://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-13241821756780139182023-01-30T07:26:25.243-08:002023-01-30T07:26:25.243-08:00When Old and In the Way played at Farallon East it...When Old and In the Way played at Farallon East it was called the Red Whale. Great show. Maybe 20 people in attendance all of whom agreed they needed to run with it. I lived in a cabin up the hill from the store. Jerry Garcia's P1800 had SU carbs like my Sprite. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-31900385716845522772023-01-27T19:32:47.794-08:002023-01-27T19:32:47.794-08:00I’m afraid that I am responsible for an error in y...I’m afraid that I am responsible for an error in your original post here. I’m Skip Lacaze. I grew up in Stinson Beach, living there from 1949 to 1989. We owned the property across the creek from the Community Center—close enough so Garcia and his band kept me up several weekend nights—from 1956 to 2020. I never met Garcia or Mountain Girl, even though we picked up their garbage at Sans Souci. I did see him commuting in his Volvo—a P1800 ES two-door station wagon, I think—and remember being surprised to see him wearing a coat and tie. <br /><br />Long ago, I saw the Farralon East handbill on a website with a request for more information. The host was compiling information about all Bay Area rock bands and venues. I replied that Farralon East was in the building that had been The Surf Club, a roadhouse on the edge of town where the new SB County Water District office is located, but it was actually the downtown bar and restaurant that had been The Breakers for 50 years and has been The Sand Dollar for most of the last 50 years, after a brief period when local Johnnie Walker operated it as Farralon East. There wasn’t enough room in the building for a band, but Walker had live music on the patio in the afternoons during the summer. The most frequent act was Quicksilver, I think. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-87555581141703969612021-08-07T08:38:54.383-07:002021-08-07T08:38:54.383-07:00Definitely the Red Whale. There's a piece in t...Definitely the Red Whale. There's a piece in the I-J 7/4/72 talking about the new place called the Brig, replacing the Red Whale restaurant.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-58896368905660761982021-08-06T20:12:43.544-07:002021-08-06T20:12:43.544-07:00Whoa, that's pretty incredible! Any idea the y...Whoa, that's pretty incredible! Any idea the year of that birthday party?Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-85371819876783826142021-08-06T14:58:35.012-07:002021-08-06T14:58:35.012-07:00I helped out at the "white whale" in Sti...I helped out at the "white whale" in Stinson Beach for a while...I went there once and Jerry Garcia was having a birthday party with Commander Cody playing...they were slammed and so I started to help pick up emptys...I was camping on Mt. Tam...I was underage...I hitched from camp to Mill valley for breakfast, then to Sausalito for lunch then to Stinson to hang at the bar, then to my campsite....it was insanely fun.<br />I don't think I'm wrong about the color of the whale though it is not impossible...a few times I was seeing colors that weren't there.,,,I revisted once many years later...maybe that is why I transposed colors...<br />cemery50https://www.blogger.com/profile/03671900444080355418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-64401984624582082452020-11-30T19:24:12.427-08:002020-11-30T19:24:12.427-08:00The Owsley Stanley Foundation has supplied informa...The Owsley Stanley Foundation has supplied information about Old And In The Way at The Brig, formerly the Red Whale, 7/15/73. It notes there was no fiddle player, but Jack Bonus sat in for some bluegrass saxophone (!).Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-64106004799588158202018-03-16T09:45:58.748-07:002018-03-16T09:45:58.748-07:00It had to be either 11/13/66 or 11/13/67. The only...It had to be either 11/13/66 or 11/13/67. The only dates the three bands shared a bill at that venue.Jerry's Brokendown Palaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06451361448230329754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-35127729551206474932018-03-16T08:08:16.776-07:002018-03-16T08:08:16.776-07:00Thank you so much for sharing these stories. They ...Thank you so much for sharing these stories. They really paint pictures for those of us who weren't there!Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-474911257363033882018-03-16T00:49:45.853-07:002018-03-16T00:49:45.853-07:00my name is richard crookham. my grandfather, lewi...my name is richard crookham. my grandfather, lewis nye ran the old stinson ranch that we changed the name to rancho las baulinas just north of stinson beach. lewis also ran the stinson beach water company which was part of the ranch. my great uncle, douglas nye bought the ranch with lucien marsh back in 1945. marsh developed the stinson beach highlands where jerry garcia lived. i have a picture of those trees before there was a house there. my aunt had a house close by. i used to change irrigation pipe with my cousins on the adjacent 100 acres next to the 40 acres they built houses on. my cousins used to take me into the surf club when i was a little boy on the way back home from the beach. they were used to doing that because their dad was a cowboy. so i remember the shuffle board and the long bar and the curtains. all the boys in town knew my cousins, the nye girls. they sold the ranch in 57 after the flood in 56 ruined one of the barns when the creek ran out of its bed. but my grandparents just moved down the road to just before the audoban ranch until my grandma moved away in 1966. my cousin penny nye was still living up in the highlands when i started going to the avalon ballroom. i parked my car in back of the avalon one night and wound up giving jerry a ride home. he was so happy and excited about his band. he didn't stop talking the whole time. i went to the avalon for the first time around october 66. i saw janis for the first time. i don't know if it was me but i never saw anyone bare their soul like that that night, even her when i saw her about 20 times thereafter. then quicksilver came out who i was there to see greg elmore the drummer who i had played drums with in high school and who i used to jam with lee michaels in 62. greg was on speed and looked really bad but quicksilver laid down a good set. then the dead came on. like suddenly there is 50 more people in what was at best a 100 person audience. the shift in energy was palpable. they played better that night than i ever have in the 30 or more times i saw then later. i was 18 in those days, when most of that crowd was pushing 30. the poster artists, the guy they called the beast. the great tuna sandwiches on black russian rye bread that they made upstairs. i got to give the light show people upstairs bathroom breaks. even gave the doorman bathroom breaks. it was only two bucks and i almost charged michelle and john phillips when they came up the stairs to check it out but the guy came back and let them in for free. in the stinson beach rock history, they say clive davis discovered janis at the red whale or surf club in 1966. they say janis had her ashes spread at stinson beach. they say the only time jerry met john lennon was at his home in stinson beach. so i knew where jerry lived. i used to ride the old army jeeps with my grandfather up through the ranch past that upper pasture all the way to road on top of mt tam to give the cattle salt blocks. the view up there was incredible. lee michaels had one of his album covers taken from our fence line looking south toward the city next to the road that runs north along mt tam. greg and quicksilver lived near olema back then where our rancher friends the trutmans had their ranch. les lesama, greg parle, lee michaels and almost everyone from my town moved to marin mostly mill valley to play music. i'm only sharing this because i loved the stories on this thread that i've read so far.spyrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11574339441643025130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-57031212410642022882017-01-11T22:15:04.704-08:002017-01-11T22:15:04.704-08:00According to the link above, The Red Whale (and Th...According to the link above, The Red Whale (and The Brig), later the Over The Hill Bar And Grill, were in the building that is now the Stinson Beach Water District. If so, that would be 3785 Highway 1, which would be the same site as Farralon East, cited above<br /><br />Now, while 3785 Hwy 1 is right on Calle Del Arroyo, it isn't necessarily the same building. Still, the nature of Use Permits in CA suggests that once a bar, always a bar. Very intriguingCorry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-45486570373475899662017-01-11T22:05:14.775-08:002017-01-11T22:05:14.775-08:00Harry, thanks so much for adding to this. I can se...Harry, thanks so much for adding to this. I can see that Calle Del Arroyo is just off Highway 1. I can see from Google that "The Red Whale' was later known as "The Brig." There is a knowledgeable Stinson Beach "music timeline" that describes some events<br />http://stinsonbeachhistoricalsociety.org/history/pop-music-since-1960s<br /><br />while some rock history details are muddled, there is no question that the author is very familiar with Stinson Beach. The Aug 27 71 date included above is referenced here.<br />Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-21029707419666970002017-01-11T19:20:35.153-08:002017-01-11T19:20:35.153-08:00Well, I wish I could remember more. A lot going on...Well, I wish I could remember more. A lot going on then. I remember being blown away by David Grisman and a little surprised too that Jerry Garcia played the banjo so well. The Red Whale was near Del Arroyo but access for cars might have been on Shoreline Hwy. I lived at the end of Calle del Mar next door to John Bassarion and Lisa Kindred who played local clubs under their band name Ascension.Baruoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05635542586548389335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-8576689020709161902017-01-11T12:29:04.688-08:002017-01-11T12:29:04.688-08:00Harry, thank you so much for the eyewitness report...Harry, thank you so much for the eyewitness report. Garcia had a Volvo P1800 in those days, good for navigating highway 1 while still having room for some guitars in the back.<br /><br />I assume the Whale Bar was off Route 1?Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-11452212893015100102017-01-10T21:50:22.753-08:002017-01-10T21:50:22.753-08:00I was at the show at the Red Whale, end of 72 or b...I was at the show at the Red Whale, end of 72 or beginning of 73. I'm Harry Branch. Using my wife's gmail account. The Red Whale was run by a couple of gay guys and not open for very long. A dilapidated building with sloping floors. The toilets drained directly to the tide flats which stunk. I don't remember the crowd as being more than a dozen locals but it could have been more. I lived down the hill from Jerry Garcia. Most of what I'm reading above is right on. A group of locals drove sports cars. We all sort of raced either along the coast or over Mount Tam. I drove a Sprite. Jerry Garcia drove a Volvo roadster, maybe a p1800. I helped him tune the carbs. He drove the roads a lot.Baruoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05635542586548389335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-71498880837182366992017-01-03T20:26:50.426-08:002017-01-03T20:26:50.426-08:00I just moved to Stinson Beach and apparently Phil ...I just moved to Stinson Beach and apparently Phil Leah was a prior owner (owned before the people we bought from). I'm trying to figure out of there is any Dead history at the house. Would be great to know. Was thinking of taking a pic of the place with me and my kids and a dead head flag and sending it to Phil to ask him. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13007274949637871401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-84309915804592235102016-10-22T13:59:19.610-07:002016-10-22T13:59:19.610-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-14903023231522343822015-08-26T15:37:29.085-07:002015-08-26T15:37:29.085-07:00Wow, that is so cool. Thanks for sharing!Wow, that is so cool. Thanks for sharing!Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-9939258757290227022015-08-26T03:52:14.005-07:002015-08-26T03:52:14.005-07:00The Red Whale was the "bar" in which the...The Red Whale was the "bar" in which they played. It was sort of a roadhouse type joint, just on the northern edge of Stinson. There was another bar in Stinson back then, also on the north end of town, I forget the name -- maybe Elwood's -- but it catered to the "straight" folks. The Red Whale was for rock & roll and hippy stuff. I lived in Stinson back then and although I didn't see them play there I remember friends talking about it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10124274354322260627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-74770928051342654822014-01-20T13:30:44.767-08:002014-01-20T13:30:44.767-08:00I just found a listing for an 8/27/71 show by Driv...I just found a listing for an 8/27/71 show by Driver at the Red Whale in Stinson Beach. Not sure that clarifies anything, but there it is.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-55966892969916070262013-11-27T16:56:13.355-08:002013-11-27T16:56:13.355-08:00My brief writeup on 9/30/73, linking back:
http:/...My brief writeup on 9/30/73, linking back:<br /><br /><a href="http://jgmf.blogspot.com/2011/08/ln-jg1973-09-30oaitwallaud11862shnf.html" rel="nofollow">http://jgmf.blogspot.com/2011/08/ln-jg1973-09-30oaitwallaud11862shnf.html</a>Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-50524242735290992772013-06-14T09:19:00.474-07:002013-06-14T09:19:00.474-07:00I do think the evidence supports that claim, yes.I do think the evidence supports that claim, yes.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-62093152419278720902013-06-13T19:59:06.703-07:002013-06-13T19:59:06.703-07:00(Good to have you back from hiatus)
At best, I...(Good to have you back from hiatus)<br /><br />At best, I've got 2/3 of it right. The question is, which thirds? There were some early gigs at Stinson Beach, whether at a bar or at the Firehouse, and it remains hard to say whether they were in February or March. Nonetheless, there was a pre-history to OAITW, even if it was only a few weeks worth.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-28731895014488626692013-06-13T17:06:36.091-07:002013-06-13T17:06:36.091-07:00Yeah, I have been thinking that the 9/30/73 gig ma...Yeah, I have been thinking that the 9/30/73 gig may be what's being referred to, albeit with some confusion.<br /><br />There's a very obscure set of tapes called "Bluegrass at Grisman's" that actually captures Jerry urging the guys to call up a bar and take it public right then and there.<br /><br />Corry, I have evidence that Richard Greene was doing sessions for Rowans in December 1972, which is also when Garcia and Grisman do some sessions for Doug Sahm. Not sure it matters, but it might be some hard proximate evidence to all of this stuff.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-50847464191892978182013-06-06T19:05:38.418-07:002013-06-06T19:05:38.418-07:00I can see your point here. All of the evidence poi...I can see your point here. All of the evidence points to shows at Stinson Beach in little tiny places, but not necessarily before the putative debut on March 2 '73.<br /><br />I have a gigantic piece on Richard Greene almost ready to go, but I don't know when it will come up in the queue. It turns out he left OAITW because he got offered real money to play with Loggins And Messina.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-22117877709837734902013-06-06T18:48:24.840-07:002013-06-06T18:48:24.840-07:00There are a couple small pieces of counter-evidenc...There are a couple small pieces of counter-evidence that OAITW might not actually have played any public shows before 3/2/73. <br /><br />The "Splendor in the Bluegrass" article describing the 3/2/73 Lion's Share show pointedly starts out: <br />"Jerry Garcia gave it away: It was their first time out. He had gone into his banjo solo before he realized he wasn't plugged into an amplifier. He grinned and quickly took a long step up to the microphone so the folks in the back could hear." <br /><br />Interviewed for Robert Greenfield's Dark Star book, Pete Rowan remembered the same moment at the same show: <br />"I remember Garcia's first solo at our first gig at the Lion's Share in San Anselmo. I don't know if it was a sight gag or what, but he was looking for knobs to turn on his banjo... He was standing there turning knobs on his banjo that he did not have."<br /><br />So - given that both a contemporary article, and Rowan's memory, call the Lion's Share show their first gig, the Stinson Beach bar show Kahn remembered might have been from March/April, not earlier.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.com