tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post6848042362459906386..comments2024-03-16T07:13:50.487-07:00Comments on Lost Live Dead: Jerry Garcia Album Economics, 1973-74 (John Kahn XIII)Corry342http://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-91419111965842995922020-11-29T17:37:05.670-08:002020-11-29T17:37:05.670-08:00The new GarciaLive 15 indicates Garcia and Fierro ...The new GarciaLive 15 indicates Garcia and Fierro were playing together in early ‘71. Maybe the first live date is documented at JGMF.David Mincheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12047836494372348559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-50414103386246920992019-12-27T21:55:16.270-08:002019-12-27T21:55:16.270-08:00Nick has a good point that if this was an attempt ...Nick has a good point that if this was an attempt to record (part of) a live album, it was very impromptu and unprepared, with no apparent followup for 6 months. <br />Maybe it was for a Fulcher project, though few songs could have been considered. Or maybe we're both on a false trail and it was strictly a Merl Saunders project as labeled, capturing some tracks for possible use on another studio album. (There are few obvious song candidates for Merl to use, though.)<br />Betty would be the one to ask! Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-75160041799548915842019-12-27T20:09:57.976-08:002019-12-27T20:09:57.976-08:00I do recall a 16-track of NRPS 5/26/73 materializi...I do recall a 16-track of NRPS 5/26/73 materializing, don't quite know what to make of it.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-90678691805190363962019-12-27T11:11:24.475-08:002019-12-27T11:11:24.475-08:00I don't know if I buy the idea that Garcia or ...I don't know if I buy the idea that Garcia or Saunders were seriously considering recording a live album in Jan 1973, or at least not the Boarding House. Fulcher had barely been with the group for a month and, like she said, she never had a chance to rehearse or even go over any material with them, nor did they make any real attempt to learn her tunes. Nothing there indicates that they wanted to make a record with her. Betty wasn't going to the trouble/expense of bringing a 16-track recorder to this gig, but there could have been other reasons. It could be something as pragmatic as her wanting to test the machine out. Or maybe she made the tape for a Sarah Fulcher project, not a Garcia/Saunders one. Fulcher said that Betty was very supportive of her and helmed one recording session with Fulcher plus Saunders, Vitt, and apparently another guitarist (3/13/73 per JGMF). Maybe Fulcher was formulating her own project using the Garcia/Saunders/Kahn/Vitt band for part of it (like what Tom Fogerty had done on his own album). Overdubbing a better vocal on a live multitrack recording of Honey Chile makes more sense in the context of using it for a possible Fulcher album. Saunders did something similar on Fire Up that same year: studio recordings centered around (but not exclusively using) the G/S band, plus one live cut (from 2/6/72).<br /><br />I don't know what to make of the "Merl Saunders Experience" labeling -- I wonder if that wasn't just someone making a joke? fwiw, isn't there also a Betty 16-track of the NRPS opening set from 5/26/73 out there in the world? (it appeared at LL semi-recently, though iirc a collector had purchased it at an auction?)Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11628132999021385676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-74534733021182479132019-12-26T05:01:51.324-08:002019-12-26T05:01:51.324-08:00I like your thinking. The fact that these and surr...I like your thinking. The fact that these and surrounding tapes are labeled "Merl Saunders Experience" also evokes an album project, to my mind. So does the fact that, for all three of these nights, they ran two sets of reels, 7" and 10" (one set on Betty's Nagra, another on what I take to be Rex's Revox).<br /><br />The weird part, though, is that these are, AFAIK, the only 16 track tapes in the Garcia vault. If they were recording for a record, why not all three nights?Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-60488876287309323422019-12-25T19:10:49.528-08:002019-12-25T19:10:49.528-08:00I think the timeline for planning the Live at Keys...I think the timeline for planning the Live at Keystone album started earlier than we thought. <br />The new Garcia Live release of the 1/23/73 Boarding House show states that it was recorded on 16-track. (In other words, not one of Betty's usual 2-track tapes: 16-track was only used for album recordings.) <br />Sarah Fulcher also mentioned in a recent interview, "Betty Cantor and I got to overdub a version of “Honey Chile” at the Grateful Dead studio, with a live track from a gig." <br />https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2019/12/17/blanks-and-postage-like-a-road-leading-home-the-elusive-sarah-fulcher-and-the-less-elusive-jerry-garcia/ <br /><br />This combination makes me think that the Jan '73 Boarding House show(s) were the first attempt at a Garcia/Saunders live album, with later studio overdubs. <br />For whatever reason, these tapes were rejected and they tried recording for the album again in July '73 (without Fulcher). <br /><br />JGMF wrote a bit about Garcia's increasing "commercialization" at the time: <br />http://jgmf.blogspot.com/2012/04/ln-jg1973-05-04jgmsallsbd.html <br />It's plausible that Garcia started thinking about a live album with Saunders as early as '72, since they were already recording in the studio together. JGMF notes that Fulcher's absence from the recorded July '73 Keystone dates is "obscure and puzzling," but I suspect it was deliberate. <br /><br />Sarah does not seem to have fond memories of how she was treated in the band - from her online comments: <br />"I had songs, they had no rehearsals. I just had to wing it and make it up as they dangled around some guitar lick. John didn't like me, jealous I think. Plus the sound person always kept me down in the mix, so I had to overcompensate just to be heard... They had a good thing with me, tried to replace me... We had one rehearsal but the Garcia band couldn't remember it at the gig. Again, I had to wing it... Like a Road Leading Home was MY SONG, I taught it to Jerry. And sang it on the gigs. They never got it right. I also sang every song on the Merl and Garcia LP, they just took me off, and put it out on Fantasy Records." <br />After all this, her non-appearance on the Keystone album becomes more understandable.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-65914319282903214612019-06-25T01:26:36.487-07:002019-06-25T01:26:36.487-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Johny Tonsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13095461455511728801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-59890747315118772182011-11-08T11:25:35.198-08:002011-11-08T11:25:35.198-08:00Great article! I'm gonna check it out... Jerr...Great article! I'm gonna check it out... Jerry’s music lives on with his world-embracing love and energy. You'll probably like this psychedelic portrait I drew of him to honor his legacy on my artist’s blog at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/08/touch-of-grey-jerry-garcia-in-memoriam.html Feel free to drop in and tell me about how the Deadhead movement affecting your life and appreciation of music.DREGstudios! The Art of Brandt Hardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09487753692973257991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-84924389756894147402011-11-06T06:34:59.793-08:002011-11-06T06:34:59.793-08:00Some of the wanderings are the most fun. Thanks fo...Some of the wanderings are the most fun. Thanks for joining in!Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-83669875776852840332011-11-05T10:33:14.675-07:002011-11-05T10:33:14.675-07:00Who says we are off-topic? On this blog, Hooteroll...Who says we are off-topic? On this blog, Hooteroll is always our primary topic!<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words. Glad to have you aboard.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-39225579669522737802011-11-05T09:28:22.118-07:002011-11-05T09:28:22.118-07:00Doug Sahm opened all the horn shows, so it would h...Doug Sahm opened all the horn shows, so it would have been easy to have Fierro and Ellis play on certain songs. I wonder if they were paid extra, which I assume they were since they were playing prepared parts rather than simply sitting in and jamming.<br /><br />Fierro also thought he met Garcia in the park in 68, so we know his dates are off.<br /><br />But I'm afraid I got everyone off topic from a great post. I have been reading this quartet of blogs (JGMF, Hooterollin, and GD Guide) since the beginning of the year more or less, and have found the material fascinating. I am an archivist by trade (check out alhirschfeldfoundation.org) and really enjoy the exploration your guys do. Keep it up!DLeopoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12539597705353359882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-56773884555574204902011-11-05T08:08:24.913-07:002011-11-05T08:08:24.913-07:00Martin Fierro was in Doug Sahm's band (as was ...Martin Fierro was in Doug Sahm's band (as was Joe Ellis), and Sahm was hanging out with the Dead at the time. Sahm was booked through Sam Cutler's agency. All the horn players on WOTF were regulars with Sahm (although they all had other gigs).<br /><br />Since the Fierro memory of playing in the park was done decades after the fact, I have always assumed that it was 1970, not '69, that Fierro was invited to jam with Garcia and Wales at the Matrix.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-57943304209407120652011-11-05T07:05:02.011-07:002011-11-05T07:05:02.011-07:00The only hard evidence for Martin playing with Gar...The only hard evidence for Martin playing with Garcia before the GD is the July 19, 1973 Great American Music Hall show. I assume this also prefigured Martin playing on the GD's Wake of the Flood, but can't be sure.<br /><br />DLeopold, thanks for joining the discussion (I say as a commenter). The more the merrier! I do have some doubts about Garcia inviting Martin to the Matrix to play with Wales in 1969, but that's the story we have and there's probably no way to evaluate it one way or the other.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-7144506391606184602011-11-05T05:16:46.974-07:002011-11-05T05:16:46.974-07:00Actually Fierro played with Garcia before the Dead...Actually Fierro played with Garcia before the Dead according to Blair Jackson's Fierro obit on dead.net. http://www.dead.net/features/news/general-news/rest-peace-martin-fierro It looks as though they met in 1969 and Garcia invited him to come down to the Matrix to play with him and Wales (who Fierro knew from El Paso...small world). <br /><br />Perhaps Fierro coming on tour with the Dead (and playing on Wake of the Flood) was also part of the Garcia jobs program from his other band membersDLeopoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12539597705353359882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-31911851300753924552011-11-04T18:45:09.782-07:002011-11-04T18:45:09.782-07:00DLeopold, I agree that it was a very interesting p...DLeopold, I agree that it was a very interesting period indeed. The whole business of using horns on the September tour has never really been discussed. People forget that Martin Fiero played with the Grateful Dead before he played with Garcia/Saunders (I realize he played on Hooteroll before that).Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-73661869362474596452011-11-04T18:22:04.189-07:002011-11-04T18:22:04.189-07:00Always a pleasure to read. I do agree with your vi...Always a pleasure to read. I do agree with your view of how the business of keeping his band together, drove these decisions. It is also a year of very varied musical experimentation for Garcia. Besides the above and OAITW, remember he brings horn players out with the Dead in the fallDLeopoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12539597705353359882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-22140135055876488052011-11-03T18:55:24.780-07:002011-11-03T18:55:24.780-07:00In order to maintain a readable narrative for this...In order to maintain a readable narrative for this post, I left out any discussion of Old And In The Way. However, if you consider your recent discovery that OAITW attempted to record their studio album around March 1973 and fit it into the timeline, it adds another layer to the story.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-25210774843708993442011-11-03T18:53:47.453-07:002011-11-03T18:53:47.453-07:00Thanks for the compliment. I admit I didn't ch...Thanks for the compliment. I admit I didn't check Garcia/Saunders setlists for 1973, and relied on my faulty memory about when Saunders started singing. Still, I think the Live At Keystone album was sequenced to emphasize Garcia's performance of rock songs, with fewer instrumentals than there might be normally. It would probably be an interesting thing to consider, but I'm not actually going to be the one to do it.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-39447133593450737762011-11-03T17:54:36.919-07:002011-11-03T17:54:36.919-07:00Outfuckingstanding.
One quick comment. You say &q...Outfuckingstanding.<br /><br />One quick comment. You say "the Live At Keystone tracks were chosen to emphasize Garcia. There were 10 tracks, 8 of them with Garcia vocals and two instrumentals. Actual Garcia/Saunders shows at the time had a different ratio"<br /><br />Maybe more instrumentals, but recall that there were effectively no Merl Saunders lead vocals in the Garcia/Saunders band until 1974, when they started doing "Wondering Why", "My Problems Got Problems" and "You Can Leave Your Hat On". So I am not sure the Garcia-dominance was a conscious emphasis as much as an accurate reflection of what the 1973 band was about.<br /><br />Not sure Merl stepping forward more 1974-1975 (e.g., vocally) has anything to do with your narrative, but it might. Once they became a "going concern", Merl could afford to make the investment in singing more (and Garcia probably wanted him to share the singing load, as well). He was no Sarah Fulcher, but then again, who is?Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.com