tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post756250763299872021..comments2024-03-16T07:13:50.487-07:00Comments on Lost Live Dead: October 12, 1968 Avalon Ballroom, San Francisco, CA: The Grateful Dead--plus Jimi?Corry342http://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-6873367428659797852020-12-26T20:35:40.465-08:002020-12-26T20:35:40.465-08:00if you read Robert Greenfield's book “Owsley” ...if you read Robert Greenfield's book “Owsley” there’s a fascinating story where owsley records Hendrix one on one and at the end of the jam Hendrix takes the tape and destroys it. I think this episode is the root of the weirdness between the Dead and Hendrix which has never really been properly explored. manhattanfantasticahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05643197546257211512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-32395826849326797612017-05-17T05:24:42.389-07:002017-05-17T05:24:42.389-07:00Owing to a personal disaster, I lost my entire lib...Owing to a personal disaster, I lost my entire library a few years ago, I cannot find my sources. It is entirely possible that my question was born out of a mix of Scully's book and my own faulty memory. Thanks for indulging me with your response.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12372741354470019020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-18296285824235425662017-05-17T00:43:19.931-07:002017-05-17T00:43:19.931-07:00I wonder what book that was.
Dennis McNally's...I wonder what book that was. <br />Dennis McNally's book has the most complete account of the Monterey festival aftermath: <br />"The Dead would depart Monterey with a considerable stack of purloined amps and speakers and bring them to San Francisco, where they used them as part of the sound system at a summer solstice celebration in Golden Gate Park on June 21... A few days later...[they] returned [the gear] to the music store in Monterey where it had been rented, minus one amp, which had disappeared." (p.208) <br />Blair Jackson also has an account in Grateful Dead Gear: <br />"After the festival, manager Rock Scully and various others drove a van up to the backstage area at the end of the last concert and 'liberated' thousands of dollars' worth of amps and other equipment that had been provided by Fender for the event...[to use at the] free Summer Solstice celebration concert in Golden Gate Park... A few days later, the equipment was returned to a neutral spot - the Ferry Building in downtown San Francisco - and Fender...was none the worse for it." (p.53) <br />Phil Lesh also remembers this in his book: <br />"On the way out of town, Danny and Rock decided to 'liberate' some gear from the clutches of Hollywood, planning to let some of the new bands use it at the solstice celebration back in San Francisco... They later returned everything." (p.106) <br /><br />Rock Scully's book has a couple pages on this, however it was ghostwritten, exaggerated and unreliable. He did say that "with that equipment, we got Hendrix to play at the Panhandle," however I haven't seen any other account that said the Dead had anything to do with Hendrix playing his June 25 Panhandle show - and they didn't have his equipment. (Scully claims that Hendrix played with the Dead, which he didn't.) <br />Hendrix biographies say nothing of the Dead here, and he didn't play at the solstice celebration. In fact we don't know whether the Dead had any contact with Hendrix during his stay in San Francisco, or even saw him at the Panhandle.<br /><br />After Monterey, Bill Graham booked Hendrix to open for Jefferson Airplane at the Fillmore, which is why he was in San Francisco. I don't know whose idea the free Panhandle show was, but Hendrix borrowed some gear from other bands. (Mitch used Spencer Dryden's drums, and supposedly Hendrix used guitar amps from the Ace of Cups, who opened for Hendrix - he thought they were "groovy.")<br />Hendrix said later, "We played for nothing and I really enjoyed it, too. Those flower people are really groovy. All the bands playing for free - that's what I call groovy teamwork. It was one of the best gigs we've ever played."Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-16417651341913166242017-05-15T22:18:28.910-07:002017-05-15T22:18:28.910-07:00I have read, in more than one book about the Dead,...I have read, in more than one book about the Dead, about The Dead stealing the Jimi Hendrix Experience P.A. system after Monterey and trucking it to San Francisco to use in a concert in Golden Gate Park, and as "ransom" to lure Hendrix to play in the park. From what I've read this prank did not play well among the Hendrix camp. Could this have created some bad feelings between the groups (or their management) that would have dampened their desire to jam together?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12372741354470019020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-34503139463424268792017-01-03T18:46:08.746-08:002017-01-03T18:46:08.746-08:00I agree with everything you all are saying.I agree with everything you all are saying.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-17454821519888994312017-01-02T16:08:58.107-08:002017-01-02T16:08:58.107-08:00Ah, I see on their Twitter feed that as of June 16...Ah, I see on their Twitter feed that as of June 16, 2016 they had transferred 150 reels. No indication of what was on all of them, though. I guess I'll keep my eyes on it in the hopes it yields some fruit, particularly these lesser known groups with whom the Dead shared the bill. Echinops ritrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495960159474155278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-61952603076263387552017-01-02T15:59:51.396-08:002017-01-02T15:59:51.396-08:00Does anyone know if they have made any progress at...Does anyone know if they have made any progress at all since 2015, when they raised over $18,000 on Indiegogo? Using their math, that's enough to transfer 72 reels!<br /><br />I agree with you: I don't object to them making some profit, but the chances that any profit is there to be made are slim to none (unless he recorded the Beatles or some top tier act, and even then, if he captured a pristine recording).<br /><br />And, don't dare set up a nonprofit organization and ask for donations to restore material that you are going to either a) profit off of; or, b) not release in any way to the public. <br /><br />I maintain that the best way to honor the Bear's memory and add value to the live music loving community is to fundraise from within that community to digitize and preserve the reels; and then, as they are digitized, put them on a website where people can listen to them streaming. If you want to make money to cover operations, then charge a subscription or sell in digital FLAC form some of the concerts. And, most of all, do it while there are still people around who care about this music, which has an ever-dwindling fan base. <br /><br />I invite them to contact me for nonprofit business consultation and money... Echinops ritrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495960159474155278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-79833165761654083172017-01-02T14:55:23.408-08:002017-01-02T14:55:23.408-08:00I think it's sad but true that there hasn'...I think it's sad but true that there hasn't been any clear thinking on the part of the Owsley family with respect to how to handle the archive. I don't object to them trying to profit off of it, but they are going about it in a backwards way.<br /><br />As you say, the overwhelming majority of these bands have little following today. Fans and former band members might be very willing to contribute to the preservation of specific reels, but not on a wish and a prayer.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-89289564180366088532017-01-02T13:08:01.097-08:002017-01-02T13:08:01.097-08:00Thank you so much for sharing this information, ev...Thank you so much for sharing this information, even if doesn't leave me with much hope. I knew that Bear had a large collection and assumed he taped other acts on the bill. His estate is wise to preserve these, but based on what I've read in these links, their approach does not leave much to be desired. I would gladly pay $400 or even $4,000 to support the preservation of live recordings, but only if there is a clear timeline of when that work will be done and how the recordings will be made available for the public. After all, an archive is usually accessible in some way to the public. The thought of donating to preserve a reel that will then be passed on to the bands involved for licensing in the hopes of eventual release (which is a hopeless proposition with many of these groups that have little to no following at this point in time), is a fool's errand (except with the major acts, perhaps, and even in that case, why not have the licensing band pay for the restoration?). The better approach would have been for the estate to turn them over or sell them to a place such as Wolfgang's Vault which already has a digitization process and method for giving the public access. Digitization with an end toward streaming them online is probably the most one could hope for with this type of stuff. That's just my unsolicited open. As I said, I'd happily donate substantial money but only to a transparent process. Whatever the case, let's hope something comes of it... the indiegogo link indicates that they far exceeded their initial fundraising goal, but you say there's been no word on any progress or on what's even in the archive.Echinops ritrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495960159474155278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-79178999625474733342017-01-02T11:28:21.240-08:002017-01-02T11:28:21.240-08:00Owsley probably taped the October '68 Avalon s...Owsley probably taped the October '68 Avalon shows, so it's fairly likely that he taped the opening acts as well.<br /><br />The Owsley Stanley Foundation is currently restoring his tapes - some more info here: <br />http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2012/03/owsley-stanley-foundation.html <br /><br />You can try contacting them through their page: <br />http://www.owsleystanleyfoundation.org/ <br /><br />They are taking donations to restore reels - of particular interest is the "Adopt A Reel" program, where for $400: <br />"You’ll select a reel from the vault catalog for priority rescue. Pick a show or artist, and we’ll prioritize the music you love most to the front of the queue. We’ll send you a photo of the reel with any of Bear’s notations, and we’ll include your name in all future credits as reel benefactor. (Please note: this perk does not guarantee you will get the music on your reel. After preservation, we will begin the process of working with each artist to hopefully release their music to the public.)" <br />https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rescue-the-legendary-owsley-stanley-sonic-journals#/ <br /><br />Oddly, all the reels that have been "adopted" so far is stuff that already circulates, nor has anyone shared a list of the vault catalog.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-38920931521624265192016-12-31T16:26:13.571-08:002016-12-31T16:26:13.571-08:00Thanks for the response. I know that many tapes in...Thanks for the response. I know that many tapes in circulation from this period were from the soundboard (by the Dead, Owsley, or as we see with Wolfgang's Vault, Bill Graham, etc.). I also know from my extensive trading (and now torrent sharing) that plenty of people were also taping shows in '68, '69, etc. on portable recording devices. While the Dead encouraged taping that morphed into trading among their fans, I suspect that people who taped shows of other acts, including the great Lee Michaels, probably did so for their own weren't as prolific when it came to trading. Still, I have managed to unearth a number of Lee Michaels tapes, many of which were not ever circulated but just collecting dust. It would indeed be great if a list from Owsley (who is now deceased, correct?) surfaced. Also, in the case of the Avalon Ballroom, I wonder was Chet Helms or whoever handled the sound there taping the shows in the same way Bill Graham was and if so, where are those tapes? As a collector, I am interested first in Lee Michaels, but more broadly in all the artists on a given night's bill -- so many of the bills were diverse and interesting, for example, this one with the Dead, Michaels, Mance Lipscomb, and Linn County. How amazing it would be if we could hear the entire night! Echinops ritrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495960159474155278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-49123698221502825692016-12-31T15:53:13.564-08:002016-12-31T15:53:13.564-08:00Man, I would love it if Lee Michaels had been tape...Man, I would love it if Lee Michaels had been taped. Most of our Dead tapes from that era, however, come from the Dead themselves, who were taping off the board. This was mostly the inspiration of Owsley, who was generally only interested in bands where he mixed the sound.<br /><br />Its likely that there are some interesting tapes in Owsley's own archive, but not even a list has ever made it to the light of day, much less the tapes themselves, so I have no idea what's there. I can only hope for some vintage Lee Michaels.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-45485033947959711062016-12-31T12:54:45.501-08:002016-12-31T12:54:45.501-08:00Interesting reading... always wondered, did the ta...Interesting reading... always wondered, did the taper of the 10-12-1968 show capture the opening acts, in particular Lee Michaels? I've never seen it in circulation, but always wondered if the people that showed up to tape the Dead ever bothered taping anyone else. I would love to see more Lee Michaels tapes surface. Please contact me directly if you have any information. Thanks. Echinops ritrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495960159474155278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-43207786481295958522015-06-20T12:07:20.543-07:002015-06-20T12:07:20.543-07:00I've got an email out to Mick Taylor through s...I've got an email out to Mick Taylor through someone else, let's see what he says...Jerry's Brokendown Palaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06451361448230329754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-22081340093952015482015-06-19T22:33:58.207-07:002015-06-19T22:33:58.207-07:00Interesting indeed.
Hendrix, Albert King & t...Interesting indeed. <br /><br />Hendrix, Albert King & the Bluesbreakers only played together in SF on the first four days of Feb '68, alternating between the Fillmore & Winterland. <br />Taylor's longer quote about the jam, in Hjort's book: "After our show at Winterland, we went and played somewhere until about five in the morning [with Jimi]. It was kind of like the Grateful Dead meets the blues. Jack Casady from Jefferson Airplane was there. I don't think we played songs, just riffs and notes, anything." <br /><br />The trouble is, of course, it would be impossible for anyone from the Dead to attend any San Francisco jam that weekend, since they were playing in Oregon - nor does Taylor really say they were there in this quote. Hence, no Dead/Hendrix meeting. (Hendrix headed elsewhere on tour after the 4th, and didn't return to SF.)<br /><br />The Bluesbreakers did play the Fillmore again on Feb 8-10, so it is possible the Dead could have encountered them that weekend, if Taylor's remembering an actual jam with some of them in the other quote. <br />Also, though Feb '68 was the first time the Bluesbreakers played San Francisco, they came back with Taylor a few times over the next year. <br /><br />For what it's worth, Mountain Girl recalled that "Jerry was super into John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, and loved their albums."Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-14065477960464152942015-06-19T16:44:33.706-07:002015-06-19T16:44:33.706-07:00I should add that John Mayall and The Bluesbreaker...I should add that John Mayall and The Bluesbreakers were at the Fillmore through February 11, and the Dead had returned from the Northwest by then. So if Phil (or anyone) had jammed with Taylor, I would guess it would be around that time frame. Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-87707471775717109752015-06-19T16:32:41.093-07:002015-06-19T16:32:41.093-07:00Very interesting. Chris Hjort alludes to this in h...Very interesting. Chris Hjort alludes to this in his excellent chronology Strange Brew. I believe the place they all jammed was "The Geary Temple" at 1859 Geary. It was an old Masonic temple owned at that time by Bill Graham, and bands playing the Fillmore were encouraged to use it as a rehearsal/hangout. I think it was here that Jack Casady first jammed with Jimi.<br /><br />Jerry has been very explicit that he never met or played with Jimi Hendrix. The only member of the Dead who did was Bob Weir, who played with Jimi a little bit in an instrument display at Monterey Pop, before Weir realized who Jimi was. So Jimi and the Dead didn't jam at Geary Temple, more's the pity.<br /><br />i did try and look into this, however, and I somehow came to the conclusion that Phil Lesh jammed with Mick Taylor at Geary Temple. I think it was a clue in Phil's book, combined with the Hjort book that led me to that conclusion.<br /><br />Bill Graham sold the Geary Temple in 1969, and it later became the headquarters of Jim Jones "People's Temple," and was wisely torn down later.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-90103374985378562652015-06-18T20:58:14.474-07:002015-06-18T20:58:14.474-07:00"...And playing in Greenwich Village at a pla...<br />"...And playing in Greenwich Village at a place called Club A-Go-Go a band did their first-ever gig, playing support for John Mayall - they were Blood, Sweat, and Tears. I also met and jammed with Stephen Stills, Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead...so when I did join the Stones, musically, I’d already been round the block a couple of times.”[1]<br /><br />Recently I asked Mick Taylor about his jams with Jimi Hendrix, here is the answer he gave me: "I remember one time in 1966 ... 67 ... I think 67 (it was 1968) ... I played in San Francisco at the Fillmore West, and I was playing with John Mayall; Albert King was playing and Jimi Hendrix was at the top of the bill. At the end ... some guys from the Grateful Dead got together with us and jammed all night."[2]<br /><br />The group (Jimi Hendrix Experience) began a series of West Coast shows with a concert at the Fillmore West on February 1 with Albert King, John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, and Soft Machine. Mick Taylor, who was playing with the Bluesbreakers, said "After the show…we went and played somewhere until five in the morning. It was like the Grateful Dead meets the blues."[3]<br /><br />Jimi Hendrix, Albert King, John Mayall's Bluesbreakers with Mick Taylor played together several times in SF:<br /><br />2/1/68-Fillmore Auditorium (GD at EMU Ballroom on 1/30/68)<br />2/2/68-Winterland (GD at Crystal Ballroom, Portland, OR)<br />2/3/68-Winterland (GD at Crystal Ballroom, Portland, OR)<br />2/4/68-Fillmore Auditorium early and late shows (GD at south oregon college gym, ashland)<br />2/9/68-Fillmore Auditorium (GD had no show scheduled)<br />8/6/70-Fillmore West (Carousel Ballroom) (GD had no show scheduled)<br /><br />Maybe on 2/9/68 Jerry and Jimi had a lil' jam after the show according to Mick Taylor.<br /><br /><br />1.)^Taylor, Mick, Sheridan, Jim, MICK TAYLOR RE-EXAMINED” RE-EXAMINED Part 1, http://www.micktaylor.net/MT_re-examinedp1.htm<br />2.)^Taylor, Mick, http://www.rocksoff.org/jimi.htm<br />3.)^Moskowitz, David, The Words and Music of Jimi Hendrix, pg. 34, https://books.google.com/books?id=dzUlWk-RvfgC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=Jimi+Hendrix,+Albert+King,+John+Mayall,+Mick+Taylor+fillmore+west&source=bl&ots=nBr1fnzMj_&sig=xh1-uScxRODHC2Vh_5Hh2_VvLZk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7G6DVa_3E5CioQTDnIfoDQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Jimi%20Hendrix%2C%20Albert%20King%2C%20John%20Mayall%2C%20Mick%20Taylor%20fillmore%20west&f=falseJerry's Brokendown Palaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06451361448230329754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-54564476254239939632012-02-28T19:30:45.705-08:002012-02-28T19:30:45.705-08:00ha ha, yes, I agree WBOTB has its own logic, but a...ha ha, yes, I agree WBOTB has its own logic, but as my correspondent implies, the important thing is that Hunter still remembered that 30-odd years later. The band thought Hendrix was coming. It doesn't even mean his failure to show was Jimi's fault, but it would add to the evening's tension.<br /><br />Well, if six had turned out to be nine, maybe we would have had a feedback solo laid on top of WBOTB--now that would have been weird indeed.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-77318454780688446312012-02-28T19:19:19.533-08:002012-02-28T19:19:19.533-08:00Wow! What a find.
The Dead were indeed recording ...Wow! What a find.<br /><br />The Dead were indeed recording WBOTB (and Barbed Wire Whipping Party) during the first week of October. Hendrix may have vaguely mentioned that he'd drop by the studio...but clearly the Dead weren't high among his priorities! <br /><br />(I doubt his anticipated visit had much to do with the weirdness of WBOTB, though Hunter might've liked to remember it that way...)Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-72459507597411839162012-02-28T17:25:49.548-08:002012-02-28T17:25:49.548-08:00A correspondent writes in with yet another twist t...A correspondent writes in with yet another twist to this story:<br /><br />"I attended a Robert hunter concert up in Seattle about 10 years ago and have it on disc. In it Hunter starts talking about the song “what’s become of the baby” and even plays a bit of it. He explains that “baby” was originally a soft minuet-style song but that Jimi Hendrix was “supposed” to come by the “studio” (assuming recording studio) so they decided to get real weird with it. <br /><br />Not sure when the recording session of AoxomoxoA was but this comes right out of Hunter’s mouth so I’m sure there is some validity to it and may be the missed meeting that you alluded to."<br /><br />And indeed, at the Robert Hunter show at the Museum of History and Industry on June 3, 2011 (http://www.archive.org/details/rh2003-06-11.aud.unk.flac16)<br />as an intro to "What's Become Of The Baby," Hunter says that they thought Jimi Hendrix was coming to the studio, so they made the song seem all weird.<br /><br />The timing fits. The Dead were working at Pacific Recorders on the first version of Aoxomoxoa in October of 1968, and Hendrix would have been in the Bay Area for at least 4 days. Hendrix was on Reprise, a corporate sister to Warner Brothers, so the record company would have been in favor of collaboration. <br /><br />If the Dead thought, rightly or wrongly, that Hendrix was supposed to drop by the studio and he didn't, and then Hendrix blew off the midnight jam, they would have been irritated indeed.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-78043297857557906102011-10-16T21:01:38.918-07:002011-10-16T21:01:38.918-07:00Much as I would love this to have been so, I think...Much as I would love this to have been so, I think it just wasn't. If Jimi was even around, he didn't play.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-56681727968942054982011-10-16T17:56:25.541-07:002011-10-16T17:56:25.541-07:00I just listened to both Feedbacks from the Avalon ...I just listened to both Feedbacks from the Avalon shows and nowhere do I hear Jimi. On the 13th there's a part where Bobby goes a little wild on his guitar and it sounds similar to Jimi but it's no Jimi. If Jimi did come on stage, he must have not plugged in because I just don't hear him.Will Ruddockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236741903558836229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-65096260331812069502010-10-31T15:19:57.283-07:002010-10-31T15:19:57.283-07:00Oh well--even if evidence takes all the fun out of...Oh well--even if evidence takes all the fun out of speculation, I'd rather know the facts. <br /><br />Maybe Buddy Miles came on stage, and it just looked like Hendrix?Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5493557313410969282.post-49762637692622441372010-10-31T15:17:23.638-07:002010-10-31T15:17:23.638-07:00In an interview by Jay Itkowitz on October 11, 197...In an interview by Jay Itkowitz on October 11, 1970, there's this Q&A:<br /><br />JI: Did you ever jam with Hendrix?<br /><br />JG: No, I never did. The opportunity just never came up.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.itkowitz.com/mam1965text.php?aid=260" rel="nofollow">http://www.itkowitz.com/mam1965text.php?aid=260</a>.<br /><br />JG and JH never played together.<br /><br />QED.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.com